24yr old new frontal balding looking for reaons/cures weed smoking?

[crisos]

Hey guys, im new here and i know i have to read the FAQ's before posting and i also see a ton of posts from newbs in here asking the typical premliminary questions.. i have a bunch myself and its great to get answer to your direct question rather then reading a FAQ but thats the way it is. Im going to describe my situation and if anyone could offer advice i would greatly appreciate it.

I'm 24, i noticed the front of my head is getting that typical loss on either side and the very front middle hairs starting to get weak and thinner. I was smoking weed 3-4x a day back then and was stressed from work and money. I had a break down one day after work, all my problems just seemed so massive as well as adding a few extra on top and this balding thing. I punched the wall a few times till my knuckles bled and hurt like hell and was right about to reach for my pipe when i realized it wasnt helping i was either stoned and numb or sober and upset making me bi-polar almost.

I had recently read that weed MIGHT be contributing to the balding problem and definitely to my emotional problems. I stopped right then and haven't gone back, its been almost a month, im feeling better from it after a few sleepless nights and my brain going into overdrive most of the day and at night. i have started back into working out and eating healthier.

I was hoping my quitting weed would help but im not sure it is, or if i need to give it more time. My sex drive has gone down big time, which is fine by me but im dont see any affect on my hair loss but is it too soon? if i could keep my hair loss where it is i would be ok but it seems like the middle front area is now starting to get thinner and weaker but im not sure if this was starting underneath my scalp from before quitting. I have been working out and dieting for the past month, helping to feel better about myself. The strange thing is its my right side that is a good deal farther along in balding then my left side which looks kinda weird. If i my right side looked like my left and it stayed that way i would be happy.

i have been drinking tea and coffee a good amount, its what i do but ive heard that green tea helps to stop the conversion of DHT, but ive also heard that a lot of these natural remedies dont work at all. I am low on cash so its not really possible for me to get my testosterone levels checked. But if Propecia/finasteride will work i will find a way to afford that.


Im basically wondering if i should give myself more time with the working out, quitting weed, natural remedies or if the more i wait the more i lose hair. I can get propecia online for $70 for a 90day supply of 1mg pills. If it works i would find a cheaper source but im worried that i might be able to gain hair back anyways and if i started propecia i couldnt stop.

[Mark]

Hey guys, im new here and i know i have to read the FAQ's before posting and i also see a ton of posts from newbs in here asking the typical premliminary questions.. i have a bunch myself and its great to get answer to your direct question rather then reading a FAQ but thats the way it is. Im going to describe my situation and if anyone could offer advice i would greatly appreciate it.

I'm 24, i noticed the front of my head is getting that typical loss on either side and the very front middle hairs starting to get weak and thinner. I was smoking weed 3-4x a day back then and was stressed from work and money. I had a break down one day after work, all my problems just seemed so massive as well as adding a few extra on top and this balding thing. I punched the wall a few times till my knuckles bled and hurt like hell and was right about to reach for my pipe when i realized it wasnt helping i was either stoned and numb or sober and upset making me bi-polar almost.

I had recently read that weed MIGHT be contributing to the balding problem and definitely to my emotional problems. I stopped right then and haven't gone back, its been almost a month, im feeling better from it after a few sleepless nights and my brain going into overdrive most of the day and at night. i have started back into working out and eating healthier.

I was hoping my quitting weed would help but im not sure it is, or if i need to give it more time. My sex drive has gone down big time, which is fine by me but im dont see any affect on my hair loss but is it too soon? if i could keep my hair loss where it is i would be ok but it seems like the middle front area is now starting to get thinner and weaker but im not sure if this was starting underneath my scalp from before quitting. I have been working out and dieting for the past month, helping to feel better about myself. The strange thing is its my right side that is a good deal farther along in balding then my left side which looks kinda weird. If i my right side looked like my left and it stayed that way i would be happy.

i have been drinking tea and coffee a good amount, its what i do but ive heard that green tea helps to stop the conversion of DHT, but ive also heard that a lot of these natural remedies don't work at all. I am low on cash so its not really possible for me to get my testosterone levels checked. But if Propecia/finasteride will work i will find a way to afford that.


Im basically wondering if i should give myself more time with the working out, quitting weed, natural remedies or if the more i wait the more i lose hair. I can get propecia online for $70 for a 90day supply of 1mg pills. If it works i would find a cheaper source but im worried that i might be able to gain hair back anyways and if i started propecia i couldnt stop.



Hi Crisos,

First off, I don't think that there's any real relation to smoking weed and hair loss, even if you smoke all day. Dr Rassman has written quite a bit about it on the blog, and generally his answer is that people who suffer hair loss while smoking pot are likely losing it due to stress, not because of the pot. (http://www.baldingblog.com/2007/03/19/thc-marijuana-and-hair-loss/)

You may have stress related hair loss. A good friend of mine has this and I've been meaning to get some pictures of it, and you're in luck! I found them!

This first photo is what his hair used to look like.
http://newhair.com/images/stressloss2.jpg

And these two are what happened.
http://newhair.com/images/stressloss1.jpg
http://newhair.com/images/stressloss.jpg

Pretty crazy huh? As you can see, he's got one of the thickest heads of hair I've ever seen. Absolutely no sign of MPB. Yet due to his job being difficult and a lot of financial trouble he is seeing stress related hair loss. It's gotten better since I took the photos, I'll have to get some new ones.

Here's the downside though. Since stress-related hair loss is not caused by DHT, there isn't a pill that's going to fix it, you simply need to learn some good stress relief techniques.

Getting off the pot is a good idea. Some people enjoy it, but for a lot of people it just makes you lazy and bored.

Good luck!

-Mark

[crisos]

thanks a lot Mark, i see you answer a lot of questions from the Newbs and i really appreciate that. How come you have such a thick head of hair?

also i was kinda misleading in my post, i dont think it is stress related it could be but im not sure. Its in the two frontal areas that men start to get that receding hair line and now the middle-front area is starting to wither and im losing hair there. In the areas i lost hair i have those little whispy hairs come up that ive been shaving down in the hopes they'll get stronger and regrow. i'll post a pic so you know what i mean.

My father had a similar problem, i didnt know him too well so im not exactly he was vain and a big alcoholic i think he had plugs or something.

[crisos]

also dont tell me that with the weed thing! ive been able to finally quit after 10 years and the balding (i am so vain) was the main catalyst for that even though ive needed to quit for many other reasons. Weed has been a major crutch for me, i smoke,work,smoke,sleep repeat it makes doing nothing fun or at least tolerable.


anyways as ive mentioned ive takin pics every few weeks to see what kinda progression good or bad happens but im not sure i notice anything.


Once again thanks a lot for answering my questions, you seemed to have curbed your hair loss problem if you had one and still come here to help people even if you still have the problem the fact that you answer so many questions is great and i really really really appreciate it.

If theirs anyway i can give back somehow let me know. I'll buy you a pair of raybans on ebay if you'd like... theyre so damn cheap lately i just got a pair i lost a long time ago that i paid $100 for retail i paid $25 shipped on ebay! or at least paypal you a few bucks ($5-10) for the help.

[Mark]

thanks a lot Mark, i see you answer a lot of questions from the Newbs and i really appreciate that. How come you have such a thick head of hair?

Haha, it's really not that thick. It's probably just the lighting in the photo there. I've always had fairly thin hair, not so thin that it's bald-ish looking or anything, but back in my heyday when I used to get crazy with the kids, I'd always be jealous of the guys who could spike their hair up all big and huge. I could never do it because my hair just wasn't thick enough to support that kind of a hairstyle. Basically now I just sort of spike it up in the front to keep the hair out off my forehead, but that's really about it.

Now my friend up there, he's got a hell of a head of hair. And the funny thing? He's jealous of my hair! He hates how thick and unmanageable it is!

The grass is always greener I guess!

also i was kinda misleading in my post, i dont think it is stress related it could be but im not sure. Its in the two frontal areas that men start to get that receding hair line and now the middle-front area is starting to wither and im losing hair there. In the areas i lost hair i have those little whispy hairs come up that ive been shaving down in the hopes they'll get stronger and regrow. i'll post a pic so you know what i mean.

My father had a similar problem, i didnt know him too well so im not exactly he was vain and a big alcoholic i think he had plugs or something.

Ah, I see. Well the first thing I'd mention is that you really shouldn't bother shaving them hoping they'll grow thicker, they won't. Shaving them will probably help if they're just kind of in the way and are unmanageable, but it's not going to grow your hair back thicker.

You may have Male Pattern Baldness, or your hairline may simply be maturing. Dr. Rassman wrote a pretty good blog here about Maturing hairlines, (http://www.baldingblog.com/2007/01/12/maturization-of-a-hairline-moving-from-juvenile-to-mature-with-photos/) and it might help you understand your own situation better.

-Mark

[Mark]

also dont tell me that with the weed thing! ive been able to finally quit after 10 years and the balding (i am so vain) was the main catalyst for that even though ive needed to quit for many other reasons. Weed has been a major crutch for me, i smoke,work,smoke,sleep repeat it makes doing nothing fun or at least tolerable.


anyways as ive mentioned ive takin pics every few weeks to see what kinda progression good or bad happens but im not sure i notice anything.


Once again thanks a lot for answering my questions, you seemed to have curbed your hair loss problem if you had one and still come here to help people even if you still have the problem the fact that you answer so many questions is great and i really really really appreciate it.

If theirs anyway i can give back somehow let me know. I'll buy you a pair of raybans on ebay if you'd like... theyre so damn cheap lately i just got a pair i lost a long time ago that i paid $100 for retail i paid $25 shipped on ebay! or at least paypal you a few bucks ($5-10) for the help.

Haha, no thanks needed. I'm glad to help. We're just trying to make this place friendly for those who are interested in talking about hair loss. If you enjoy the place, stick around! We're always here.

I'm not 100% positive that I've got some form of MPB, but I had been told a few times by people cutting my hair that it looked like it was thinning in the back, and I look back at pictures from 2001 and I've noticed that my hairline at the temples has certainly gone back some. I take Finasteride every day just to be sure.

-Mark

[Kinky Temples]

That picture of the concealed guy is wierd...

I never saw stress-related loss like that. The way I see it anything that may contribute to hair loss (stress, low intake of certain nutrients, and/or what I believe to be another factor, ejac. due to possible more release of DHT into bloodstream) will mostly affect your already-weak follicles that will eventually become victims of DHT in your stream.

What I'm seeing I guess has nothing to do with that theory...and I wish I just had that problem. Dammit!

I mean, I don't find it surprising that some kids (2-6) I see, despite their full heads of hair, seem to have somewhat weak hair on top and at the crown, and/or the temples. It isn't thinning or lack of density, just that their hair look a bit weak in those areas. May very well support the claim follicles are genetically determined at birth. This is just my observation, and it's probably a bad hypothesis. :p

I thought I should say I don't take pics for several reasons.

- My hair looks thinner/thicker at random times due to how clean/dirty/moist/short it is, and how much it is styled by me.

- I just couldn't tell jack either way because my hair becomes kinkier than usual at random times. I know more kinkiness usually signify further thinning because it's easier for thin hair to curl, but sweat/moisture has an effect on it as well.

- I doubt I need pics to tell if I'm losing hair, because if I will lose a sufficient amount of hair at one point I will be able to tell. I am that careful and observant when it comes to hair loss. I even observe other people's hair more than they do.

Also just something I want to throw out there. I don't see the reason to be putting labels on people (noobs in this case) it doesn't help any problems we might have.

[crisos]

sorry for the newb thing, it wasnt really meant as anything derogatory i was referring to myself mostly and if i wasnt one i probably wouldnt use it. Makes me think of the thing on Seinfeld with the jewish dentist, the dentist could rip on jewish people because he was one (well married into it) but Jerry couldnt rip on dentists because he wasnt one. He was "anti dentite".

im not an "anti-newbite" sorry last time i use that term.

As for pictures i think theyre a good idea for a few reasons and special situations. One, it helps people like me who obsess over this and everytime they look in the mirror try to analyze their loss. I do this because of reason 2, i have made changes that i want to see if they are taking effect and if theyre not then to move on to something else. I quit smoking after 10 years and want to see if the smoking was the reason i was starting to lose hair doubtful condsidering it was 10 years but maybe and their are a few other variables. So taking pics once a week or so helps.

Also in regards to it being hard to tell because of other variables like time of day, if ive used product, lighting and what not. My hair is mostly a constant, i never use any type of product the area i take the pic is in a bathroom that is away from sunlight its not hard for me to make each pic as close to the same circumstances as the last one. Like a scientific experiment, but it honestly doesnt take me much time to once in awhile mount the camera take a few pics and go on with my day.

Also im not really looking for thinning but if my hairline has receded a bit or stopped which is impossible to guage if you see yourself everyday but looking at very similar pics over the course of a few weeks/months helps. My brother cuts my hair with a buzz cut i keep it low on the sides so the growing over time isnt really a problem.

[crisos]

also if i make lifestyle changes or try new supplements/medications how long do you think i should give them before i decide theyre not working and move on? Say hypothetically it was stress causing me to lose hair (which i doubt at this point) and i adjust my life style, become a buddhist and mellow out. Or if i start taking saw palmetto (ive read a lot of places on propecia so i wont ask) do you know how long it takes for my body to adjust and my head to get with the program if its going to change?

[Lain]

Personally I think that if you want results with any medication in terms of hair regrowth you should at least try it 8 months. Dont forget that no change is a change if you had hair loss, since keeping your hair is good. If you really want to have certainty go to a doctor to make a professional miniaturization. This gives you the 100 % proof if your hair gets better, stays the same or gets worse.

Concrete on saw palmetto to comment is hard, since their is no scientific evidence that it actually has an effect on its own. However I doubt that it would make it worse.

Congrats you stopped smoking weed. Keep it there. The example that I bring now should not encourage you to start again. However I have a friend of my family who smokes and drinks more than you can imagine. He still has the same hair as he was 18 and he is now 60. Then I know Mr Healthy who is bald by the time he reached 25. Very very very sadly getting bald is mostly determined by genes.

Do the life style change thou go jogging, eat healthy and get a shiny body. Its not all about hair. I would prefer a baldie over a person who is bad in shape if I was a woman.

[Mark]

sorry for the newb thing, it wasnt really meant as anything derogatory i was referring to myself mostly and if i wasnt one i probably wouldnt use it. Makes me think of the thing on Seinfeld with the jewish dentist, the dentist could rip on jewish people because he was one (well married into it) but Jerry couldnt rip on dentists because he wasnt one. He was "anti dentite".

im not an "anti-newbite" sorry last time i use that term.

As for pictures i think theyre a good idea for a few reasons and special situations. One, it helps people like me who obsess over this and everytime they look in the mirror try to analyze their loss. I do this because of reason 2, i have made changes that i want to see if they are taking effect and if theyre not then to move on to something else. I quit smoking after 10 years and want to see if the smoking was the reason i was starting to lose hair doubtful condsidering it was 10 years but maybe and their are a few other variables. So taking pics once a week or so helps.

Also in regards to it being hard to tell because of other variables like time of day, if ive used product, lighting and what not. My hair is mostly a constant, i never use any type of product the area i take the pic is in a bathroom that is away from sunlight its not hard for me to make each pic as close to the same circumstances as the last one. Like a scientific experiment, but it honestly doesnt take me much time to once in awhile mount the camera take a few pics and go on with my day.

Also im not really looking for thinning but if my hairline has receded a bit or stopped which is impossible to guage if you see yourself everyday but looking at very similar pics over the course of a few weeks/months helps. My brother cuts my hair with a buzz cut i keep it low on the sides so the growing over time isnt really a problem.

That's really the only way to do it. We actually had a patient here who took a photo of himself, on a weekly schedule I believe, after his surgery. It was super neat to see all the photos, in the same position, with the same lighting every time, and see how his hair grew in.

Hair loss is a lot like weight loss to me. You never notice it because you see yourself every day, but how often have you not seen a friend for a long time and you see them and think "Wow, the really lost/gained some weight!", but they don't even know really.

Ultimately miniaturization mapping is the best way to chart your hair loss and it's progression, but regular photos of your hair from the same angle and with the same light every day should give you a good idea too.

[Mark]

also if i make lifestyle changes or try new supplements/medications how long do you think i should give them before i decide theyre not working and move on? Say hypothetically it was stress causing me to lose hair (which i doubt at this point) and i adjust my life style, become a buddhist and mellow out. Or if i start taking saw palmetto (ive read a lot of places on propecia so i wont ask) do you know how long it takes for my body to adjust and my head to get with the program if its going to change?

Nobody can give you an exact answer, as everyone's body is different, but generally I'd say around 6-9 months.

Here's a perfect example, last night I went out with that friend who I have the pictures of up there. I checked his hair and it's growing back! If he brushes the hair aside it's still a little thin, but nothing like it was up there.

I didn't have my camera on me yesterday to get the photo, but I'm going to see him again today or tomorrow and I'm going to try and get the same sort of photo, and get it good and close up so you guys can really get an idea of what it looks like when the hair starts growing back. Getting thicker, etc. I'm going to check the EXIF data on that photo too so I can tell you exactly how long the photos were taken apart. I think those photos above might be around 6-9 months old, but I'll be able to tell you exactly.

Who knew my best friend was such an educational utility for teaching hair loss information? Haha.

[jimjonesjim]

Haha, no thanks needed. I'm glad to help. We're just trying to make this place friendly for those who are interested in talking about hair loss. If you enjoy the place, stick around! We're always here.

I'm not 100% positive that I've got some form of MPB, but I had been told a few times by people cutting my hair that it looked like it was thinning in the back, and I look back at pictures from 2001 and I've noticed that my hairline at the temples has certainly gone back some. I take Finasteride every day just to be sure.

-Mark

WTF???? You work for Dr. William Rassman, and you're not sure?? That just doesn't make any sense. So, you work for one of the foremost "hair transplant specialists", but you're basing your opinion on whether or not to take a drug that may or may not mess with your dick on your stylist? Something is wrong here. I'm starting to think that the only way to tell you're going bald is when you see a bald spot.

[Ernie Primeau]

for AGA. It is that the needed nutrients to grow hair are being used up by a new groth of body and face hair. Were you losing scalp hair before the new growth? Of course not. What to do about it, remove the new growth of hair from the follicles. I and others have been regrowing our hair by doing so for years. For more info, e-mail me, or ask here. Ernie

[Lain]

Mark is a man of science and men of science can never be 100% sure about something. The signs are there for him having MPB and therefore the probability is high of him having it and thats why he prolly takes Propecia. You probably watched to much Dr. House who seems to know everything to 100 %.

[jimjonesjim]

Mark is a man of science and men of science can never be 100% sure about something. The signs are there for him having MPB and therefore the probability is high of him having it and thats why he prolly takes Propecia. You probably watched to much Dr. House who seems to know everything to 100 %.

Nope, my point is that he works for someone with a lot of experience in the area, and if he were in fact balding, that man would be able to tell him so. In his picture, he does not appear to be balding, but he said he was worried about his crown.

[Mark]

WTF???? You work for Dr. William Rassman, and you're not sure?? That just doesn't make any sense. So, you work for one of the foremost "hair transplant specialists", but you're basing your opinion on whether or not to take a drug that may or may not mess with your dick on your stylist? Something is wrong here. I'm starting to think that the only way to tell you're going bald is when you see a bald spot.

I'm not basing my choice to take Finasteride on my stylist, I was simply pointing out that people had told me that it looked like I was losing my hair in the past. I started working for NHI a few years ago and Dr. Rassman gave me a consultation and determined that it was likely that I've got some form of MPB. I was showing miniaturization in the crown and in the temples. He explained to me the potential benefits and concerns that I may have by taking finasteride, and I looked at the clinical study information and determined that the risk of any side effects was negligible. I have been under the supervision of a doctor (Dr. Rassman) the entire time I've been taking Finasteride and I've seen nothing but positive results. I have not seen any side effects.

Anyone who tells you with 100% certainty that they know exactly how much you can expect to bald, or exactly what you can expect from taking any drug is either a con-artist or is entirely too overconfident in their abilities.

You bring up an excellent point which I think is a big problem with the industry. We're all talking about a problem that many men feel extremely self conscious about, and many of whom would do anything they could to reverse the process. This of course inevitably results in doctors willing to overplay their confidence in their abilities, willing to try and show their patients a level of confidence which is not justified by the science.

What we're trying to do here is be absolutely honest with you. In science it's extremely difficult to say that you're 100% certain about anything. So we're going to do our best here to tell you what you will likely experience when taking anti-MPB drugs or going through hair transplant surgery.

When I say that I'm not 100% sure that I've got some form of MPB, it's because I've never actually been fully balding. I saw that my hairline was receding from looking at photos of me from years ago, but it's hard to say whether the recession of my hairline was due to MPB or just my hairline maturing. By taking finasteride I'm ensuring that I don't have any hair loss in the future, and I'm comfortable with the risks that I may face from taking the drug.


If I'm not clear in anything I've written here, please feel free to ask questions. I'm an open book.

-Mark

[crisos]

Wow Jimjones, freeking out a bit much? He just didnt fully elaborate on everything he did shoulda brought it up by asking not stating giving him the benefit of the doubt till you knew.