About Follicle Resistance

[Kinky Temples]

I have been hearing that HT patients should use Propecia/Proscar/etc. after getting a plant.

The question is why would they have to if it's donor hair that's being transplanted. I thought these are the ones that are naturally resistant to the DHT.

Not thinking of getting a plant of course, as I think it's hardly worth the risk, cost, and effort. I am however interested in the hair multiplication invention that's supposedly soon coming out if I'll need it in the future. Though about that...what are follicles exactly? I always thought of them as cavities in the skin where hair grow out of. So, are follicles tissue cells or are they roots/cavities or both?

[Mark]

I have been hearing that HT patients should use Propecia/Proscar/etc. after getting a plant.

The question is why would they have to if it's donor hair that's being transplanted. I thought these are the ones that are naturally resistant to the DHT.

The reason they do that is because the hairs that are transplanted are indeed resistant to DHT and falling out, however the hair around it are not.

Basically you transplant hair from the donor area of the scalp to cover up the bald areas, and you take Finasteride to keep the hair that you still have.

Not thinking of getting a plant of course, as I think it's hardly worth the risk, cost, and effort. I am however interested in the hair multiplication invention that's supposedly soon coming out if I'll need it in the future. Though about that...what are follicles exactly? I always thought of them as cavities in the skin where hair grow out of. So, are follicles tissue cells or are they roots/cavities or both?

Here's a ton of great infomation about what follicles are exactly. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_follicle) Pretty much any question you have about them can be answered there.

Hope that helps.

-Mark

[Kinky Temples]

Oops...sorry about #2. How lazy of me. :p

[Mark]

Oops...sorry about #2. How lazy of me. :p

Hey don't worry about it. I'm literally paid to be here so please, ask away! :D

-Mark

[Kinky Temples]

Well I guess this relates to the topic...it's about sebum build-up. I've been hearing about this, and for the past year I thought hair loss is caused only by DHT, which screws certain follicles. Lately, I've been hearing that:

1. It's an overproduction of DHT that screws you, well, I mean, how is this so? Why then is it that only some follicles die? I don't think it's due to an overproduction because it doesn't explain why you still have your back hair. I think it's just those victim follicles that are vulnerable (or sensitive) to DHT, period.

2. Then I've been hearing that sebum build-up is clogging follicles and causing them to choke as much as DHT does, and that there are shampoos that not only get rid of sebum (scalp waste) but DHT as well. What I don't understand is how is this true when DHT is an internal thing? I thought that runs into your blood and into the root level of your hair, so how does a shampoo manage to clean something inside of your skin?

The way I see it, it's caused by androgen receptors. The reason why some people's hair are always good is because their follicles don't have these receptors, or the receptors are so insignificant that it doesn't override the nourishment the follicles get from the food they eat.

That or I guess...it may be true that baldness is linked to sebum production as well. Perhaps someone with MPB will naturally secrete for scalp sebum (which is probably half the reason why they're bald) but I'm not sure. I think 98% of it has to do with DHT vulnerability.

[Mark]

Well I guess this relates to the topic...it's about sebum build-up. I've been hearing about this, and for the past year I thought hair loss is caused only by DHT, which screws certain follicles. Lately, I've been hearing that:

1. It's an overproduction of DHT that screws you, well, I mean, how is this so? Why then is it that only some follicles die? I don't think it's due to an overproduction because it doesn't explain why you still have your back hair. I think it's just those victim follicles that are vulnerable (or sensitive) to DHT, period.

Well, it's not necessarily overproduction of DHT that causes Male Pattern Baldness, it's the way your body is genetically predisposed to react to DHT. Everyone has DHT in their system, but not everyone will suffer from hair loss because of it.

As far as I know, it's not completely understood why you don't lose hair on the back of your head. We simply know that men with Male Pattern Baldness don't.

2. Then I've been hearing that sebum build-up is clogging follicles and causing them to choke as much as DHT does, and that there are shampoos that not only get rid of sebum (scalp waste) but DHT as well. What I don't understand is how is this true when DHT is an internal thing? I thought that runs into your blood and into the root level of your hair, so how does a shampoo manage to clean something inside of your skin?

Your skepticism is very well founded.

One of the things I've learned while working here at New Hair is that there is no end to the kinds of misinformation that is out there about what causes and stops hair loss. This is the reason you see people rubbing onions on their scalp and olive oil and pretty much any number of different substances that don't do a lick of good.

And the products being sold to people are no different. There is no real scientific evidence that supports the idea that buildup of Sebum causes hair loss, or that high sebum levels result in higher levels of DHT. Dr Rassman wrote about it a bit here on the blog. (http://www.baldingblog.com/2007/11/14/does-sebum-build-up-produce-more-dht-on-follicles/)

Because of all this misinformation out there, (especially in other countries), there are all kinds of products sold that claim to help hair loss problems but are just garbage designed to scam people out of their money. The scammers who take advantage of these people because of their unfortunate situation are truly scummy.

I wish that everyone would have the kind of healthy skepticism about this kind of quackery that you do.

The way I see it, it's caused by androgen receptors. The reason why some people's hair are always good is because their follicles don't have these receptors, or the receptors are so insignificant that it doesn't override the nourishment the follicles get from the food they eat.

That or I guess...it may be true that baldness is linked to sebum production as well. Perhaps someone with MPB will naturally secrete for scalp sebum (which is probably half the reason why they're bald) but I'm not sure. I think 98% of it has to do with DHT vulnerability.

You're right about the DHT vulnerability. The sad fact is that some people are just genetically predisposed to have hair follicles that are vulnerable to the DHT in their bodies. The only known, proven way to get around that so far is to take drugs like Finasteride which can help out quite a bit. But I get the feeling that I'll never live a day where I don't get an e-mail from someone who has their hopes up because some scam artist has sold them some shampoo or laser or concoction that they think will help them get their hair back, when in reality the only thing they're getting is scammed.

[Kinky Temples]

lol @ the olive oil part. For the past half year I've been using it twice a week, not to get hair back but to help get rid of the minoxidil residue I would wake up with the next day. Twice a week I would take a good shower and apply the minoxidil everywhere where my hair isn't as dense, leave it overnight and wake up the next day and shower it out, after putting on olive oil because I heard it helps get rid of dandruff/residue.

I stopped using the oil however, like today, I didn't use it and there's very little residue. I know minoxidil is a twice a day thing, but with my lifestyle and the fact I don't have a shaved head it's a hassle putting it on everytime. I spend at least 40 minutes putting it on because I have to make like 12 split rows on the top of my head to make sure my scalp is exposed to it as much as possible. I also try rubbing it in with my fingers.

I've also stopped taking the finasteride from 4rx.com which I've been on for 7 months and started taking Merck's Propecia (got 90 pills for 180), not bad I guess considering I'm paying half. Hopefully I'll get results unlike with the 4rx version. I have very little scalp showing, and mild temple recession. It's just that side and back follicles are probably double thickness of my top and upper temple area, so I do what I can do make it not appear so. Lately I've been desiring to just shave it all off, lol. I'm gonna do it maybe eventually...we'll see what the updated treatment will do within the next year or so.

Oh and **** DHT. :)

[Mark]

lol @ the olive oil part. For the past half year I've been using it twice a week, not to get hair back but to help get rid of the minoxidil residue I would wake up with the next day. Twice a week I would take a good shower and apply the minoxidil everywhere where my hair isn't as dense, leave it overnight and wake up the next day and shower it out, after putting on olive oil because I heard it helps get rid of dandruff/residue.

I stopped using the oil however, like today, I didn't use it and there's very little residue. I know minoxidil is a twice a day thing, but with my lifestyle and the fact I don't have a shaved head it's a hassle putting it on everytime. I spend at least 40 minutes putting it on because I have to make like 12 split rows on the top of my head to make sure my scalp is exposed to it as much as possible. I also try rubbing it in with my fingers.

I've also stopped taking the finasteride from 4rx.com which I've been on for 7 months and started taking Merck's Propecia (got 90 pills for 180), not bad I guess considering I'm paying half. Hopefully I'll get results unlike with the 4rx version. I have very little scalp showing, and mild temple recession. It's just that side and back follicles are probably double thickness of my top and upper temple area, so I do what I can do make it not appear so. Lately I've been desiring to just shave it all off, lol. I'm gonna do it maybe eventually...we'll see what the updated treatment will do within the next year or so.

Oh and **** DHT. :)


Haha, everyone hates DHT around here. I wonder why? :D

Also, I just want to emphatically state that when I make comments about hair loss "solutions" like olive oil and onions and all that other stuff, I'm in no way trying to make disparaging remarks about the people who try them. Hell, I totally understand it. There's just SOOOOO much bad information out there about treatment, and people are so desperate to stop losing their hair that they'll try anything. It's a really awful situation. That's the reason we started this forum and the blog. To try and get as much legit information out there as possible.

Now, in your instance, olive oil could probably help with keeping your scalp from being so flaky. Lotions like cetaphil would probably work well too. A friend of mine gets tattooed a lot, and his tattooer tells him to put this stuff called "Aquaphor healing ointment" on his tattoo afterward and it really heals considerably faster than if he puts nothing on it.

Whatever you do, just make sure to wash your hair daily so the residue from whatever you use doesn't get all built up on your scalp. I don't think you'll necessarily lose hair from it, but it's probably just gross feeling.

-Mark

[Kinky Temples]

Well I don't think olive oil does crap as far as I'm concerned I just thought it did.

What baffles me is on another forum someone made a connection between minoxidil dandruff and it not being applied right or not working. I was like WTF?! There is no way that my getting minoxidil residue means it isn't working. Yeah, there is some minoxidil on my scalp and thus not in the follicle, but that doesn't mean my follicles didn't get their share of the minoxidil.

I mean, even if you apply minoxidil on plain skin, like a temple where you used to have hair, the next day that part of your skin will be flaking.

It took me a while to realize scratching and comb strokes are what gets the dandruff out best because the residue becomes a layer of dry minox on your scalp.

[Mark]

Well I don't think olive oil does crap as far as I'm concerned I just thought it did.

What baffles me is on another forum someone made a connection between minoxidil dandruff and it not being applied right or not working. I was like WTF?! There is no way that my getting minoxidil residue means it isn't working. Yeah, there is some minoxidil on my scalp and thus not in the follicle, but that doesn't mean my follicles didn't get their share of the minoxidil.

I mean, even if you apply minoxidil on plain skin, like a temple where you used to have hair, the next day that part of your skin will be flaking.

It took me a while to realize scratching and comb strokes are what gets the dandruff out best because the residue becomes a layer of dry minox on your scalp.

Ah, well there you go. I know what you mean about stuff on forums. I hope to keep this one populated with information that's at least a little less crazy than others. Haha.

-Mark

[Kinky Temples]

Here is I think another good question about the follicle. It has to do with minoxidil too.

I'm not expecting an answer for this because I think it's a little hard...but here does.

Is it any harder for minoxidil to thicken a follicle that's 1/10 of a millimeter in diameter than a follicle that is 1/5 of a millimeter? I just want to know if minoxidil will reach some kind of "limit" before the final point where the follicles are just as good as the side/back.

[Mark]

Here is I think another good question about the follicle. It has to do with minoxidil too.

I'm not expecting an answer for this because I think it's a little hard...but here does.

Is it any harder for minoxidil to thicken a follicle that's 1/10 of a millimeter in diameter than a follicle that is 1/5 of a millimeter? I just want to know if minoxidil will reach some kind of "limit" before the final point where the follicles are just as good as the side/back.

Wow, that is a hard question. I'll have to do a little research on that. I just wanted to post this here to let you know that I read the question and will check it out.

-Mark

[Kinky Temples]

Thanks. :) Finding these out make me spend my money wisely in the long run. :D