View Full Version : Telogen Effluvium VS MPB
How do i identify whether it's Telogen Effluvium or MPB?
I'm losing hair all over my scalp. However the most visible should be at the back of my head.
I noticed that the hair that falls are thin. But almost equally the same number of thick normal hair falls. The roots on the hair are black.
My eyebrows are shedding too.
What problems might happen if a patient that do not suffer from MPB or androgenic alopecia takes propecia? Since propecia originally reduces the size of the prostate gland will it affect a normal patient? Will hair fall happen?
How do i identify whether it's Telogen Effluvium or MPB?
I'm losing hair all over my scalp. However the most visible should be at the back of my head.
I noticed that the hair that falls are thin. But almost equally the same number of thick normal hair falls. The roots on the hair are black.
My eyebrows are shedding too.
What problems might happen if a patient that do not suffer from MPB or androgenic alopecia takes propecia? Since propecia originally reduces the size of the prostate gland will it affect a normal patient? Will hair fall happen?
Considering you're losing eyebrow hair as well as hair on your scalp, it doesn't sound like it would be any form of MPB.
Generally speaking, Propecia is going to have the same effect on the body whether you're suffering from androgenic alopecia or not. If you've got MPB, then propecia can possibly help.
-Mark
buckerine11
12-10-2008, 07:47 PM
How do i identify whether it's Telogen Effluvium or MPB?
I'm losing hair all over my scalp. However the most visible should be at the back of my head.
I noticed that the hair that falls are thin. But almost equally the same number of thick normal hair falls. The roots on the hair are black.
My eyebrows are shedding too.
What problems might happen if a patient that do not suffer from MPB or androgenic alopecia takes propecia? Since propecia originally reduces the size of the prostate gland will it affect a normal patient? Will hair fall happen?
Jack, usually when you lose hair all over your scalp, it's telogen effluvium. But, it could also be a diffuse form of MPB, or even a combination of TE and MPB.
I have a problem similar to you. I have been losing body hairs for two years. My scalp hair has decreased in density by about 60%. I have also lost an equal amount of pubic hair.
However, my hairline has also receded a bit, and now I am noticing more shedding at the front of the my scalp.
So, I believe my problem was precipitated by telogen effluvium, which is now becoming MPB.
Forgive me for the late reply.
I noticed that i have been losing hair on my scalp and on my eyebrows for almost 2 months now. My pubic hair are also more fragile as they shed more and easier.
The only reason i suspect i might have TE is that the lost is rapid. On the other hand i thought i might have MPB because there is a small patch on my vertex that looks like having less hair density.
I am losing hair on the front too. I am sure about this as my fringe is longer and hair that falls are long (there are short 1 too at an equal amount). However there is totally no sign of receding hairline.
A year ago, for 2 weeks i did not shampoo my hair for a reason. That time oil build up on my scalp. Could that be a reason?
About 2 months ago i had chemical relaxers applied to my hair too. However i did not repeat the same mistake of not shampooing. The chemicals were not applied to the vertex area.
A slight brush through my side burn causes the hair too fall too.
I have went to a dermatologist and after running his hand through my scalp he prescribed to me minoxidil 5%. I did not follow his treatment and is currently looking out for minituarization mapping.
By the way i'm 19.
Thanks.
buckerine11
12-20-2008, 02:23 PM
Forgive me for the late reply.
I noticed that i have been losing hair on my scalp and on my eyebrows for almost 2 months now. My pubic hair are also more fragile as they shed more and easier.
The only reason i suspect i might have TE is that the lost is rapid. On the other hand i thought i might have MPB because there is a small patch on my vertex that looks like having less hair density.
I am losing hair on the front too. I am sure about this as my fringe is longer and hair that falls are long (there are short 1 too at an equal amount). However there is totally no sign of receding hairline.
A year ago, for 2 weeks i did not shampoo my hair for a reason. That time oil build up on my scalp. Could that be a reason?
About 2 months ago i had chemical relaxers applied to my hair too. However i did not repeat the same mistake of not shampooing. The chemicals were not applied to the vertex area.
A slight brush through my side burn causes the hair too fall too.
I have went to a dermatologist and after running his hand through my scalp he prescribed to me minoxidil 5%. I did not follow his treatment and is currently looking out for minituarization mapping.
By the way i'm 19.
Thanks.
Whoa, my story is almost identical to yours. Only, I'm experiencing some recession of the hairline and temples.
Like you, I have lost some body hair like eyebrow, eyelashes, and alot of pubic hair.
Also, my hair loss all started after I didn't wash my hair for about two weeks, after which I noticed a very very large increase in hair shedding, and it hasn't stopped since. (well, the shedding slowed down, but I haven't seen regrowth either).
The hair that you lose, do you notice that the root end is thinner than the tip end?
Whoa, my story is almost identical to yours. Only, I'm experiencing some recession of the hairline and temples.
Like you, I have lost some body hair like eyebrow, eyelashes, and alot of pubic hair.
Also, my hair loss all started after I didn't wash my hair for about two weeks, after which I noticed a very very large increase in hair shedding, and it hasn't stopped since. (well, the shedding slowed down, but I haven't seen regrowth either).
The hair that you lose, do you notice that the root end is thinner than the tip end?
There are some with irregular thickness throughout the strand but overall most of them have even thickness.
Did you encounter any formation of acne or pimple on the face?
It's a long post so I'm gonna put this into a few parts. Although i have yet to receive any reply from experienced patients/medical doctors, i hope they do read my post and reply to it. Its impossible to observe my actual condition currently but maybe you could judge my reasoning. I would like to say thank you earlier on as part of this post can be seen as my personal rants.
Alright i have to face the truth. I think i am experiencing MPB. You might think what the heck am i basing my opinion on but here's what i think.
First exactly a year ago i had oily scalp due to infrequent shampooing of my hair on my scalp. Then DHT build up. One sign that DHT levels increase is that acne and pimples appeared at that same moment and have been occuring ever since. My face before this had little acne. Now acne appears ever now and then.
Next is the hair that fall. I noticed that they are thin. Some hair has lengths up to 7cm. Based on my calculations of normal hair growth of 0.4mm per day, my hair should have started thinning 175 days ago. That is more than 2 months ago.
My vertex is balding. I have no receding hairline. I noticed that hair fall from the front too. But thats recently. My loss of frontal hair should be due to the treatment by the chemical relaxers.
I could not find any dermatologist in my area that could do scalp mapping. Since propecia works the same to every other men, i think i'm gonna start on Propecia. Currently my vertex shows a clear lack of hair density. Several months later i would check on the hair density on the vertex and hopefully it would show a significant difference.
Cost is not an issue. I am only afraid that taking propecia would actually cause hair loss to be worse. Or if propecia is not effective and i stop it, would i experience more hair loss than not trying propecia at all? Another thing is that i am 19 years old. If my body decides to go against propecia in 5 years time, then i would go bald in my twenties. Thats not really nice either. If i were balding in my 30's and started on propecia i might actually only be bald by 40. Thats still alright somehow. I don't wanna be bald in my 20s.
Is there any way to check for amount of DHT. I have done some research and found that blood test would not be able to determine DHT levels. However there's something about skin biopsys but not much. Is there anything i should know about?
Dr. Rassman once posted that shampoo, diet, vitamin don't affect hair loss. If you're losing hair then you have MPB. So now is the question, did i brought myself all this trouble(acne and hair loss) because i skipped washing my hair for 2 or more weeks? Or am i experiencing MPB due to genetic and not because i did not shampoo my hair? Somehow after reading the post buckerine11 i felt like i had caused all this to happen and that it could have been avoided.
Again forgive me for the length and for any inappropriate contents and thank you for reading up to here.
It's a long post so I'm gonna put this into a few parts. Although i have yet to receive any reply from experienced patients/medical doctors, i hope they do read my post and reply to it. Its impossible to observe my actual condition currently but maybe you could judge my reasoning. I would like to say thank you earlier on as part of this post can be seen as my personal rants.
Alright i have to face the truth. I think i am experiencing MPB. You might think what the heck am i basing my opinion on but here's what i think.
First exactly a year ago i had oily scalp due to infrequent shampooing of my hair on my scalp. Then DHT build up. One sign that DHT levels increase is that acne and pimples appeared at that same moment and have been occuring ever since. My face before this had little acne. Now acne appears ever now and then.
Next is the hair that fall. I noticed that they are thin. Some hair has lengths up to 7cm. Based on my calculations of normal hair growth of 0.4mm per day, my hair should have started thinning 175 days ago. That is more than 2 months ago.
My vertex is balding. I have no receding hairline. I noticed that hair fall from the front too. But thats recently. My loss of frontal hair should be due to the treatment by the chemical relaxers.
I could not find any dermatologist in my area that could do scalp mapping. Since propecia works the same to every other men, i think i'm gonna start on Propecia. Currently my vertex shows a clear lack of hair density. Several months later i would check on the hair density on the vertex and hopefully it would show a significant difference.
Cost is not an issue. I am only afraid that taking propecia would actually cause hair loss to be worse. Or if propecia is not effective and i stop it, would i experience more hair loss than not trying propecia at all? Another thing is that i am 19 years old. If my body decides to go against propecia in 5 years time, then i would go bald in my twenties. Thats not really nice either. If i were balding in my 30's and started on propecia i might actually only be bald by 40. Thats still alright somehow. I don't wanna be bald in my 20s.
Is there any way to check for amount of DHT. I have done some research and found that blood test would not be able to determine DHT levels. However there's something about skin biopsys but not much. Is there anything i should know about?
Dr. Rassman once posted that shampoo, diet, vitamin don't affect hair loss. If you're losing hair then you have MPB. So now is the question, did i brought myself all this trouble(acne and hair loss) because i skipped washing my hair for 2 or more weeks? Or am i experiencing MPB due to genetic and not because i did not shampoo my hair? Somehow after reading the post buckerine11 i felt like i had caused all this to happen and that it could have been avoided.
Again forgive me for the length and for any inappropriate contents and thank you for reading up to here.
The first thing you should probably do is map your scalp for miniaturization the way the doctors have outlined in the threads linked at the top of every forum page. If you do that, the doctors will at least have some information about what to do regarding Propecia and your question about genetic balding.
But the most important thing is that you see a good, caring doctor. The fact that you're losing hair in other places on your body rather than just your head is troublesome and can be caused by any number of things which a visit to a doctor can possibly rule out.
-Mark
The first thing you should probably do is map your scalp for miniaturization the way the doctors have outlined in the threads linked at the top of every forum page. If you do that, the doctors will at least have some information about what to do regarding Propecia and your question about genetic balding.
But the most important thing is that you see a good, caring doctor. The fact that you're losing hair in other places on your body rather than just your head is troublesome and can be caused by any number of things which a visit to a doctor can possibly rule out.
-Mark
Does dirty and oily scalp increases the formation of DHT? Is there any correlation between DHT and acne on the face?
Does dirty and oily scalp increases the formation of DHT? Is there any correlation between DHT and acne on the face?
I don't think that oil and dirt on the scalp has any correlation with a rise in the level of DHT.
Just from a quick google search, there seems to be some correlation between excessive DHT and acne, but there's something you should remember. A high level of DHT does not necessarily mean that you will see hair loss as a result of it. We all have DHT in our bodies, it's just that people with the genetic predisposition to MPB will react differently to that DHT than those who don't.
So for example, a test to see how much DHT you have in your body would really serve almost no purpose. What matters is how your body reacts to it. And unfortunately the only way to really test for that right now is to evaluate the level of miniaturization of the hair on the scalp, and compare the areas on your scalp where people normally see MPB with your donor area which should be your base measurement for what is "normal" for you.
But really, I think the first thing you should do is see a doctor. The hair loss you're experiencing on the rest of your body is something that should be evaluated in person by a trained physician.
-Mark
I had made an appointment with a dermatologist in a major hospital. Hopefully they have scalp mapping. This will be my 3rd visit to a different dermatologist with the previous 2 failing to have the equipments to do scalp mapping.
If however this fails too, i am likely to start on propecia as recommended by the dermatologist.
I have a significant loss of hair on the back of my head. The hair now consist of thin strands. The hair probably started thinning last year due to infrequent shampooing, couple of weeks. However the hair fall had only been rapid these 2 to 3 months. After a gentle pull on the back the hair that falls are thin too.
The problem of hair loss from other parts of my body might have been misjudged. After the rapid hair fall, only did i pay attention to my hair. It was probably falling like this as till now there is no sign of balding or lossing hair density at those parts.The hair on the bottom back of my head is very thick.
I probably had thick hair till early this year. That is why i suspect its due to my own actions of not shampooing.
I had made an appointment with a dermatologist in a major hospital. Hopefully they have scalp mapping. This will be my 3rd visit to a different dermatologist with the previous 2 failing to have the equipments to do scalp mapping.
If however this fails too, i am likely to start on propecia as recommended by the dermatologist.
I have a significant loss of hair on the back of my head. The hair now consist of thin strands. The hair probably started thinning last year due to infrequent shampooing, couple of weeks. However the hair fall had only been rapid these 2 to 3 months. After a gentle pull on the back the hair that falls are thin too.
The problem of hair loss from other parts of my body might have been misjudged. After the rapid hair fall, only did i pay attention to my hair. It was probably falling like this as till now there is no sign of balding or lossing hair density at those parts.The hair on the bottom back of my head is very thick.
I probably had thick hair till early this year. That is why i suspect its due to my own actions of not shampooing.
Best of luck to you. I don't know if you can get it in your area of the world, but if you can get one of the microscopes we talk about in the threads linked at the top of the page, you can do the miniaturization mapping yourself at home.
-Mark
Best of luck to you. I don't know if you can get it in your area of the world, but if you can get one of the microscopes we talk about in the threads linked at the top of the page, you can do the miniaturization mapping yourself at home.
-Mark
Thanks.
Currently sourcing for the microscope too.
What are my chances of going against baldness if i have been experiencing minituarization for a year without finasteride? Will the finasteride still be as effective?
Thanks.
Currently sourcing for the microscope too.
What are my chances of going against baldness if i have been experiencing minituarization for a year without finasteride? Will the finasteride still be as effective?
Essentially finasteride should be thought of as a solution to keeping the hair that you've already got left on your head. In most men it'll stop the balding process in its tracks. In some rare cases, it can even regrow hair, but that's much less common.
Went for the appointment. Sadly there's wasn't any scalp mapping.
The doctor acknowledged that i am losing hair at the back and noticed minituarizing hair. Besides that my dad had showed signs of balding in his thirties and is almost bald now. Therefore the doctor concluded that it's genetic and i have androgenic alopecia and told me to try finasteride for few months. However before that, the doctor actually recommended the minoxidil as she told me that i am young and i would have to take finasteride for life if i were to start. There's no problem with taking finasteride at 19 years old right?
Went for the appointment. Sadly there's wasn't any scalp mapping.
The doctor acknowledged that i am losing hair at the back and noticed minituarizing hair. Besides that my dad had showed signs of balding in his thirties and is almost bald now. Therefore the doctor concluded that it's genetic and i have androgenic alopecia and told me to try finasteride for few months. However before that, the doctor actually recommended the minoxidil as she told me that i am young and i would have to take finasteride for life if i were to start. There's no problem with taking finasteride at 19 years old right?
Hi Jack,
There's no problem with you taking Finasteride at 19, but your doctor is correct in saying that you'd need to take it for life. If you've got MPB and you take Finasteride for a few years and then stop, you're likely to lose all the hair that would have been lost naturally over that period of time. That's just the way it works unfortunately. Maybe in the future there will be a drug created that stops hair loss completely, but until we get there this is probably the best option available to you.
-Mark
Hi Jack,
There's no problem with you taking Finasteride at 19, but your doctor is correct in saying that you'd need to take it for life. If you've got MPB and you take Finasteride for a few years and then stop, you're likely to lose all the hair that would have been lost naturally over that period of time. That's just the way it works unfortunately. Maybe in the future there will be a drug created that stops hair loss completely, but until we get there this is probably the best option available to you.
-Mark
How long before side effects would start showing if there is any?
The finasteride have half-life of couple hours so side effect should stop with stopping finasteride. But there is a research about permanent side effects. Is there any significant side effect that caused the initiation of this research? A direct quote from wikipedia, "Finasteride is under investigation by the Swedish Medical Products Agency for possibly causing irreversible sexual side effects". I can't quote from the exact source as it's not in english. Here's the site http://www.lakemedelsverket.se/Tpl/NewsPage____5522.aspx
Since finasteride keeps my current batch of hair. After 6 months what else can i notice about my hair? Will hair fall stop right after starting finasteride?
Btw it's my 1st day.
How long before side effects would start showing if there is any?
The finasteride have half-life of couple hours so side effect should stop with stopping finasteride. But there is a research about permanent side effects. Is there any significant side effect that caused the initiation of this research? A direct quote from wikipedia, "Finasteride is under investigation by the Swedish Medical Products Agency for possibly causing irreversible sexual side effects". I can't quote from the exact source as it's not in english. Here's the site http://www.lakemedelsverket.se/Tpl/NewsPage____5522.aspx
Since finasteride keeps my current batch of hair. After 6 months what else can i notice about my hair? Will hair fall stop right after starting finasteride?
Btw it's my 1st day.
Finasteride can cause birth defects in women who are pregnant. I can't read that link you sent, but I'm assuming that's what they're discussing.
As far as other permanant side effects of taking finasteride, I don't know of any. There are all kinds of claims made (http://www.baldingblog.com/2008/10/01/finasteride-side-effects-in-30-40-of-users/) all over the internet. (http://www.baldingblog.com/2008/01/11/can-you-dismiss-propecia-information-on-the-web/) Read those links for the Docs opinion of them.
Propecia starts working within hours of taking it, but you've got to remember that we're still talking about hair growth. Not exactly the speediest thing. You should see the final results of taking it after about 8-9 months, but you're not going to wake up tomorrow with a full head of hair or anything.
-Mark
Finasteride can cause birth defects in women who are pregnant. I can't read that link you sent, but I'm assuming that's what they're discussing.
As far as other permanant side effects of taking finasteride, I don't know of any. There are all kinds of claims made (http://www.baldingblog.com/2008/10/01/finasteride-side-effects-in-30-40-of-users/) all over the internet. (http://www.baldingblog.com/2008/01/11/can-you-dismiss-propecia-information-on-the-web/) Read those links for the Docs opinion of them.
Propecia starts working within hours of taking it, but you've got to remember that we're still talking about hair growth. Not exactly the speediest thing. You should see the final results of taking it after about 8-9 months, but you're not going to wake up tomorrow with a full head of hair or anything.
-Mark
If it works immediately, does the side effect shows immediately if there is any?
If it works immediately, does the side effect shows immediately if there is any?
In some people yes, in others no. Nobody can tell you exactly how your body is going to react.
Less than 2% of people taking the drug experience any side effects, which is not that much different from a sugar pill.
If you experience side effects, they should go away within a day or so after you stop taking the drug.
Not much more I can tell you.
-Mark
In some people yes, in others no. Nobody can tell you exactly how your body is going to react.
Less than 2% of people taking the drug experience any side effects, which is not that much different from a sugar pill.
If you experience side effects, they should go away within a day or so after you stop taking the drug.
Not much more I can tell you.
-Mark
While doing a search for my inability to gain weight even through wrong ways such as eating alot and on high carbs i found a correlation between acne, hair loss and weight loss. The thing is, it might be unlikely but is it possible for a male at 19 to have thyroid disease?
While doing a search for my inability to gain weight even through wrong ways such as eating alot and on high carbs i found a correlation between acne, hair loss and weight loss. The thing is, it might be unlikely but is it possible for a male at 19 to have thyroid disease?
Anything is possible. But I suggest you see your doctor to find out for sure. Nobody on the internet is going to be able to tell you whether you have Thyroid disease.
-Mark
Anything is possible. But I suggest you see your doctor to find out for sure. Nobody on the internet is going to be able to tell you whether you have Thyroid disease.
-Mark
The doctor ruled that out because i am a young male.
There have been side effects on the semen of patients taking finasteride. Will the sperm cells be affected? Will my future child have any problems or will there even be problems of having a child?
I am suffering hair loss but it's not very major. Hair loss is noticable at my crown upon close inspection. Therefore i decided to go on finasteride but not minoxidil. This way in case my body goes against finasteride after 5 years, i got hope at minoxidil. Do majority of patients on finasteride experience loss of effect of finasteride after 5 years? Does finasteride work on the front and temple? Minoxidil is not so effective but it works.
Went for thyroid profile testing for free T3, free T4, TSH. All were within normal ranges. So it's not thyroid disease.
Thing that is bothering me though is that i am experiencing quite a number of thyroid disease symptoms such as hair thinning, acne, frequent urination, dry skin, skin recovering slowly, unexplained weight loss, inability to gain weight, heat intolerance yet its very hard to sweat. ALL of these started exactly the same time between November and December 2007.
Went to the dermatologist after the thyroid profile. Reported to the dermatologist about it.
Report on my finasteride treatment. It's more than a month. Have been taking it every single day. No side effects such as breast enlargement or pain.
Went for thyroid profile testing for free T3, free T4, TSH. All were within normal ranges. So it's not thyroid disease.
Thing that is bothering me though is that i am experiencing quite a number of thyroid disease symptoms such as hair thinning, acne, frequent urination, dry skin, skin recovering slowly, unexplained weight loss, inability to gain weight, heat intolerance yet its very hard to sweat. ALL of these started exactly the same time between November and December 2007.
Went to the dermatologist after the thyroid profile. Reported to the dermatologist about it.
Report on my finasteride treatment. It's more than a month. Have been taking it every single day. No side effects such as breast enlargement or pain.
It's good to hear that you're following through on trying to figure what the problem is, and I'm glad to hear that your experience with Finasteride is doing well. Hopefully your doctor can get to the bottom of things.
-Mark
It's good to hear that you're following through on trying to figure what the problem is, and I'm glad to hear that your experience with Finasteride is doing well. Hopefully your doctor can get to the bottom of things.
-Mark
I noticed that the strand of the hair from the root to about half an inch above the root is thinning. Based on the length it should have started right after starting finasteride. Is it a known temporary side effect?
I am also experiencing shedding even worse than before. It's normal right?
I am just asking. Finasteride does not work on everyone. But is there possibility that finasteride worsen male pattern baldning?
Thanks.
I noticed that the strand of the hair from the root to about half an inch above the root is thinning. Based on the length it should have started right after starting finasteride. Is it a known temporary side effect?
I've never heard of that. How do you know the hair is thin in that area? I'd need a microscope to figure that out. It's a little unclear from your description, but are you trying to say that you want to be able to measure how well Propecia is working for you by measuring the thickness of the root of the hair?
I am also experiencing shedding even worse than before. It's normal right?
I am just asking. Finasteride does not work on everyone. But is there possibility that finasteride worsen male pattern baldning?
Thanks.
Dr. Rassman has written about shedding related to Finasteride a bunch, but you can find some good posts here (http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/03/15/excessive-shedding-with-propecia/), here (http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/05/16/propecia-shedding-vs-regular-hair-loss/), and here. (http://www.baldingblog.com/2007/05/17/what-percentage-of-men-shed-hair-when-starting-propecia/)
I suppose it's hard to say that something is impossible, but I've never heard of Finasteride making things worse, just that it won't work.
I've never heard of that. How do you know the hair is thin in that area? I'd need a microscope to figure that out. It's a little unclear from your description, but are you trying to say that you want to be able to measure how well Propecia is working for you by measuring the thickness of the root of the hair?
I mean now there are strands of hairs experiencing minituarization near the roots ever since starting finasteride. Before starting on finasteride my hair had even thickness. Some were minituarized hair and some were normal. However now the normal hair, from the front, experiences minituarization near the roots. I dont have receding hairline.
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll86/tomatos2008/1-1.jpg
Okay it's been 2 months. Taking finasteride 1mg daily without missing any dosage. Hair loss still hasn't gone down till recently when i had my hair shorten. Losing hair that are long still. I am still having minituarized hair.
The side effect showing after 2 months. I now have difficulty in having an erection almost totally. No interest in pornography or masturbation.
I know this side effect would be lasting as long as i take finasteride. Is there any solution around it? What do other patients do about it?
Out of curiosity, do you dye your hair?
Kinky Temples
03-06-2009, 09:55 AM
May be a little off-topic but here are the areas I would like to lose hair from greatest to least
1. Armpits (ARGHHHH!!!!!)
2. Facial hair, partly due to the fact it's painful and annoying to deal with.
2. Pubic and anal area (srsly)
3. ....legs, belly and arms
4. sides and back of my hair (who needs'em anyway :p)
The last area I'd want to lose hair is up front and on the top, and it's the only areas I'm actually losing hair in. Gay.
Out of curiosity, do you dye your hair?
No
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