type II dht

[Niall]

sorry for asking so many questions! :) but i seen this in the blog:

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Hi Dr. Rassman!

I have a question regarding DHT and its effect on estrogen.

Isnt it true that DHT is essential to keep estrogen levels at bay? And by removing up to 70% of DHT with a drug like finasteride youre exposed to amounts of estrogen not normal to a male body. That could make for ex building muscles harder, cause you to develop gyno (male breasts) and or other feminine atttributes? What can be done to keep the estrogen levels normal when youre on a drug like finasteride.. or does it matter much if estrogen is roaming freely? whats your opinion Dr. Rassman.

This is a huge concern of mine. Thank you


Your questions are all over the map and many of your facts just don’t fit together. You do not wipe out 70% of DHT, you just block 70% at the hair follicle level. There is no feminizing effects of taking a DHT blocker and if by rare chance you got breast enlargement, it is thought of as an idiosyncratic reaction, not a feminizing process.

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my question is, does finasteride block dht in the scalp or in the body in general? also, does it totally block type II dht or is there still some in the body?

another thing i was wondering.....finasteride blocks the conversion of dht so shouldn't we have higher testosterone? then why the sexual side effects?

[Mark]

sorry for asking so many questions! :) but i seen this in the blog:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Dr. Rassman!

I have a question regarding DHT and its effect on estrogen.

Isnt it true that DHT is essential to keep estrogen levels at bay? And by removing up to 70% of DHT with a drug like finasteride youre exposed to amounts of estrogen not normal to a male body. That could make for ex building muscles harder, cause you to develop gyno (male breasts) and or other feminine atttributes? What can be done to keep the estrogen levels normal when youre on a drug like finasteride.. or does it matter much if estrogen is roaming freely? whats your opinion Dr. Rassman.

This is a huge concern of mine. Thank you


Your questions are all over the map and many of your facts just don’t fit together. You do not wipe out 70% of DHT, you just block 70% at the hair follicle level. There is no feminizing effects of taking a DHT blocker and if by rare chance you got breast enlargement, it is thought of as an idiosyncratic reaction, not a feminizing process.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

my question is, does finasteride block dht in the scalp or in the body in general? also, does it totally block type II dht or is there still some in the body?

another thing i was wondering.....finasteride blocks the conversion of dht so shouldn't we have higher testosterone? then why the sexual side effects?

It doesn't change the level of DHT in your body, it simply changes the way that the DHT reacts with your hair follicles. That's as far as I know, but I want to clarify that.

-Mark

[kb1979]

Mark, could you elaborate a little on the relationship between finasteride and estrogen & testosterone levels in the body? I apologize in advance for my relative naivety about the subject but if I recall, Dr. Rassman answered a question about this and indicated that increased levels of estrogen and testosterone are often witnessed in people on finasteride, but I believe he also stated that these are typically offset naturally by the body in a short period of time after beginning propecia (I would search for and post the link but the balding blog site seems to be down at the moment).

In any case, given that increased levels of estrogen and testosterone can be dangerous (eg. high estrogen is a common cause for breast cancer), is this something that long-term users of finasteride should be concerned with?

[Mark]

Mark, could you elaborate a little on the relationship between finasteride and estrogen & testosterone levels in the body? I apologize in advance for my relative naivety about the subject but if I recall, Dr. Rassman answered a question about this and indicated that increased levels of estrogen and testosterone are often witnessed in people on finasteride, but I believe he also stated that these are typically offset naturally by the body in a short period of time after beginning propecia (I would search for and post the link but the balding blog site seems to be down at the moment).

In any case, given that increased levels of estrogen and testosterone can be dangerous (eg. high estrogen is a common cause for breast cancer), is this something that long-term users of finasteride should be concerned with?

Hi kb1979,

I don't really have any expert advice on this issue, but Dr. Rassman has written about it quite a bit on the blog. Cliffs notes? No real evidence of breast cancer increase by people on Finasteride.

http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/12/04/why-would-libido-and-breast-side-effects-occur-with-finasteride-use/

http://www.baldingblog.com/2008/04/15/can-propecia-increase-estrogen-in-young-men/

http://www.baldingblog.com/2008/05/16/propecia-and-anabolic-steroids-both-increase-testosterone-levels/

http://www.baldingblog.com/2008/07/07/propecia-and-male-breast-cancer/

http://www.baldingblog.com/2008/07/30/very-high-estrogen-levels-after-4-months-on-propecia/

[kb1979]

Thanks for the quick reply Mark. I did a little more research of my own and a document available on the FDA MedWatch re: Propecia site states the following:

Mean circulating levels of testosterone and estradiol were increased by approximately
15% as compared to baseline, but these remained within the physiologic range.

I take this to mean that it wouldn't be normal for there to be a significant increase in estrogen levels in Propecia users.

[Mark]

Thanks for the quick reply Mark. I did a little more research of my own and a document available on the FDA MedWatch re: Propecia site states the following:

Mean circulating levels of testosterone and estradiol were increased by approximately
15% as compared to baseline, but these remained within the physiologic range.

I take this to mean that it wouldn't be normal for there to be a significant increase in estrogen levels in Propecia users.

Basically yeah. Testosterone and Estradiol both increased by 15%, but that's still well within a "normal" range.

If you're seeing ranges outside of normal, that may be something to look into, but it's not something that we see much, if ever.

[Mexican Hair Off]

I've read a couple of papers saying Finasteride inhibits 5 Alpha Reductase II, is this what you mean by Type II DHT?

As Finasteride is mostly used orally it will inhibit 5AR II wherever it circulates, but 5AR II is found mostly in the hair follicles, 5AR I is more common in the rest of the body.

As for cancer, it isn't listed in the possible side effects, and they seem to be a) pretty bad! and b) pretty well known and categorized so I think you're safe there.